DIFFFERENCES BETWEEN THE UK C-TYPE & THE US P-15

By

Perry Phillips & Harry Gordon

Harry,

It's good to hear from you again. It's been awhile. You probably remember that I bought Frodo (C-Type English Potter) from Derek Treuer in Miami in 1999 and restored it over the winter months converting to a Lateen rig.

English Potter C-Type "Frodo" with Lateen Rig

I never knew the hull number for Frodo. The original sails had been so blown out that the number couldn't be read. West Wight Laminates did not engrave hull numbers prior to 1972 so none of the early B-Types or C-Types had them. The only way you can know is from the sail number. Fortunately, Bobber still has the original sail intact. The company also built more than one model at a time. Apparently, both B and C type Potters were being built in 1969. And there are some B Types that were built into the early '70's. The D Types didn't come along until about '74 or '75 I believe.

(Note that the B-types paralleled the similar U.S. gunter rigs. They were apparently both being made from about 1966 through the early 70s. The B-type was manufactured/sold in the UK, Holland, and Denmark, according to a brochure. The UK brochure refers queries to separate manufacturers in those countries and to HMS Marine in the U.S.-- Harry Gordon)

I purchased Bobber (Earlier C-Type English Potter) from Harry Wolf in Shrewsbury, Massachusetts. I really loved the convenience of the stayless mast on Frodo and plan to finally do my Chinese junk rig on Bobber. I've noticed that most of the people who have attempted a Chinese rig have modified the approach recommended by Hasler and McLeod in their book The Practical Junk Rig.

English Potter C-Type "Bobber"

My regular sailing buddy (Max Dawson) has a 1982 P-15 and we often sail together. The C-Type cabin has more room than the American Potters, or at least more than Max's boat. It looks lower because of the forward step down. The step is far enough toward the bow that it doesn't affect the usable room inside the boat. I have never been a fan of V-berths, so the C-Types quarter berth arrangement is another plus for me. You can view the drawings at my Website and notice that the floatation chamber at the bow is also a real advantage. I believe that the English Potters have a better righting motion than the American boats because more of their floatation is placed high. The coaming's on the C-Type are much higher than the American boats and are filled with foam floatation. As a result the C-Type sails dryer in rough weather. I also like the lazarette at the rear of the boat.

Bobber's Foredeck and Mast Step

Bobber's Cockpit

As for negatives, you almost have to be a contortionist to get in and out of the cabin because of the very narrow companionway. The C-Type boats are considerably heavier then the American boats. I believe the hull and deck are at least double the thickness if not more. Frodo's hull weighed in at a little over 650 lbs with the centerplate in. The centerplate weighed only 55 lbs and was galvanized. Bobber, my new C-Type is very similar to Frodo but is obviously an earlier built boat. The quality of work is not nearly as detailed as Frodo. I don't believe they had their grasp of working with fiberglass and gelcoat down pat. Bobber suffered from quite a few dry spots in the glass fiber under the gelcoat. I've had to grind them out and will fill them with a fiber strand impregnated epoxy filler before coating with a good primer and paint.

Cockpit & Cabin Companionway

Check the Website from time to time and you can see the progress that I'm making.

Best regards,

Perry Phillips

C-Type WWP Hull #44 "Bobber"

Port Authur, Texas

Web Site: http://communities.msn.com/BobbersMooring

Second Message:

Harry,

I rattled off a quick answer this morning and didn't get to some of your questions. I'll try to answer below.

Wasn't Frodo a C-type UK Potter also?

Yes!

Where do you find them?

So far, both were found on the Potter Yachters For Sale Page.

The shorter cabin would have less windage forward, and the forward overhead space lost inside wasn't really useful anyway.

Answered in earlier message.

How do you think it compares to the U.S. Potters?

Since I like to sail in blustery weather, I like the heavier UK boat. It suffers in light wind situations, however. Max could sail circles around Frodo in light wind in his American Potter. The Lateen rig on Frodo worked great, even pointing as high as Max's Marconi Rig, but didn't have enough sail area (only 85 sq. ft.). I have increased the sail area for Bobber's junk rig to 108 sq. ft. and hope this will improve performance.

Do you happen to know what difference there was between the C and D models?

I believe the D-Type had a wooden trim around the edge of the boat instead of the vinyl that came on the typical C-Type. The D-Type also offered a factory junk rig option, but only two were ever built according to Bob Lomas of the UK Potters Association.

You might want to weigh your centerplate while you have it out. Mine weighed 65 LB and was galvanized.

I will do that. I suspect that it is identical to Frodo, but I could be wrong. I'll get back to you when I know.

Regarding a swing keel P19, my inclination would be to look for one of the many used swing keelboats that are available instead of converting a P19....

I'm not really looking for another boat. I have 6 in my boat yard (a Flicka just sold, an O'Day Daysailer II, a Ghost 13 also just sold, Bobber my C-Type, a `70's model Potter that belongs to a friend, and a rigid yacht tender that I've just finished) that I'm going to be working on in the upcoming months. I was curious about the P-19 centerboard because another friend has been asking about them and doesn't have internet access. Perry